"My" rules....

[johnpalmer]

I've survived a long time, and I've come to understand the rules for social interactions.



Here's the first, and all of these rules are spoken to me, in the second person.
1) You're the weird one - everyone else knows how to do this. So don't expect any sympathy when you fuck up.

This is a key rule, because it underlies all of them. If I accidentally hurt someone, that's my fault. And if someone accidentally hurts me, that's also my fault, for causing unpleasantness. It's far, far worse if I cause more fuss than simply the normal parts of being hurt. Dear lord, I'd better not say "if you care about me, you should apologize!" though it's best to remember that a false statement can be said to imply *any* other statement.

(Hah! See what I did there? "If you care about me" is presumed to be universally false! Ha! HAHA! HahahahahahaokayItWasn'tThatFunny. Seriously, I know there are people who care about me. It's the faith that they do that's hard to maintain.)

It's an important rule for me to keep in mind at all times, because when I'm fatigued, I strongly suspect blood flow to my brain is impaired, so my brain isn't firing on all cylinders, and that makes it easier for weird stuff to occur, from bad emotional reactions, to misunderstandings, to just plain looking funny. Did you know an exhausted person can have funny facial expressions? Especially if they're hurt by something?

2) you're not allowed to be happy, unless every other important person is - you're sure not allowed to show any special pride in who or what you are.

I once had a dear friend who I let in on a little joke of mine - trying for a Spencer Tracy vibe, and a self-effacing tone, when I'd done something impressive, I'd said "well, I *am* a genius, you know, I'm allowed to have a good idea once in a while." Well, the genius bit is true; seriously, if you hang with me for a while, and don't realize it, either I'm in a bad fatigue shell, or, we're not doing anything important, or, you're not trying to observe my native intelligence (or you are, but suck at estimating it). But it's a really stupid joke, opening me up to all kinds of pain, so it's kind of fallen by the wayside.

Besides, brilliance is overrated in social circles - popular, and witty is far more important.

Every now and then I get this deep chill from "Behind Blue Eyes" when I hear the bit about "if I smile, tell me some bad news, before I laugh, and act like a fool." You need to be vulnerable to laugh, you know, and someone is sure to find a way to cut you down to size for that crime. (Laughing? Or being vulnerable? To-may-to, to-mah-to.)

3) You're really not welcome here, we both know that, but if you're 'house trained' - what, that makes you sound like a not-quite-human animal? Oh, okay, then - if you're 'house trained', it's okay, so long as you don't make trouble, like annoying someone or being hurt.

Of course, I'm not 'house trained'. I'm weird; my brain works in unusual ways; I think of things other people won't think about, and I like to work on them, think about them talk about them, but of course, sometimes what I think is wrong, which is normal, because, after all, if I'm annoying, I'm wrong and broken. So it's better not to bring up any ideas I find interesting that aren't already being discussed.

Also,
4) there are rules about being right, and being wrong, about being hurt, or offended, or upset. The most important one is, you are to intuit when someone else feels that way about you (even if they're acting politely and like a friendly acquaintance) but you are not to feel that way and act as if it's someone else's fault, responsibility, or that it's even of interest to them.

Finally, and most importantly:
5) Who the fuck are you to think that you *matter*? How have you *earned* your right to decent treatment, without having done anything that allows someone to hurt you with impunity?

I can earn the right to decent treatment by being of use, but I do have to be aware that there are many things that allow a person to hurt me with impunity. Breathing seems to be a good example.

These aren't easy rules to live under, of course, but there's a fascinating thing about most people: we need other people. We need human contact. It's a stupid game, and it's a sucker's game, but what else is there, except fading away, without anyone? And you can't just play it when you're strong enough to handle the pains of hideous failures. You have to try to play it when you're already battered, skinned and broken, because otherwise, there won't be anyone there when you're able to engage happily.

Of course, in the past six months I can't think of a single day when I've been able to engage happily. I'm sure there have been days in the past few years, but none stand out. But I can't assume that there won't be those days; there are three hundred fifty seven reasons not to give up, and that's before you think about how people will be hurt.

These rules are why, when someone I love and trust tells me I'm crap, it's really easy to believe it. It's not that I believe it as an *essential truth*... it's that I believe it's exactly what they see, with good, sound reason. It's exactly why I expect there are more people waiting to say the same thing, who just aren't annoyed enough to do so, yet.

I was working with these rules, trying to figure out how to shed them. It didn't work out that well.

I remember one person, who tried to convince me that it was good to talk about *me*, and when I did, it turned into a public calling out - why did I discuss my interest in shamanism, of all things? (Of course it was dealt with in public! "I can tell you're excited about this, but it's not something I find interesting" is far more trouble than *I* am worth!)

I remember one person who heard an ugly story about me, and told me I was definitely wrong, but, wow, this story was a bit too ugly for all of that. That was loads of fun; how dare I expect people to reserve judgment on my actions unless they know the situation! How dare I be *hurt* and *upset*, other than in some properly sanctioned manner (which I never learned and never will)?

I've had people tell me how *boring* I was and how *upset* they were that I wasn't the person they wished I was. Sure, they consented to participate in activities with me, but geez, I should have realized that their free choices are somehow my problem! For bonus points, I got that talking to when I was realizing that I literally didn't have anything left to live *for*.

I still don't. I have plenty of reasons *not to die*. That's a different thing.

And right now, I have this glimmer of hope. It's like, my hip is healing, and my mental energy is sometimes far, far greater than it's been in years and years. I'm being careful; hope is a lovely drink, but too much of the cheap stuff and you'll have a magnificently miserable hangover! But there's one place where hope is still a sign, "this way to the egress" pointing to the opening of the blast furnace, and that's friendship and love, because I still don't know how to shed these rules, and try to interact like an ordinary person.

Maybe I'm tough, or maybe just too stupid to give up, but I haven't given up. I'm just completely lost.

Comments

[ljgeoff]

I'm sorry that you're hurting. I just want you to know that someone is listening.

Also -- You've often mentioned your ADHD. A lot of my loved ones have ADHD, Asperger's, and slide this way and that on the autism scale. Quite a bit of what you're writing, especially your difficulty with unwritten social rules, sounds like my loved ones. It's a tricksy thing, autism.

[johnpalmer]

Thinking about autism isn't really helpful. I don't fit in a lot of different ways. I do fit in some ways - but I think that where my similarities come in are when I'm fatigued.

There are times I'm blindingly empathic and in a useful, meaningful way; and find it easy to follow and understand and use unwritten social rules, and a lot of what kills me is text - where the inability to read expressions doesn't hit.

One problem is that I miss a lot. Like, I've made flubs about things that "everyone knows, now" which is normal for me because I'm not plugged in enough to see it. The world changes subtly around me.

Other things are because I refuse to accept a dumb-ass conventions. It's not that I don't think rules don't apply to me... it's that I know rules  have a reason, and that if you understand the reason well enough, you can break the rule correctly, and I'm willing to do so - and I'll be angry if a person tries to hold me to the rule, without understanding the circumstances.

I've been surprised by the number of women who don't respond well when I said, if I had daughters, I'd teach them some good armlocks, and finger locks, to inform unwanted attention-givers that their attentions are, in fact, unwanted. It's true: you shouldn't respond to the first case of over-exuberant exploration with a broken arm. It's also true that, if you need to break an arm, to make your "no!" stick, you're engaging in self-defense, and your only consideration should be that "too many broken arms will get you talked about." And sometimes, it's good to be talked about.

I know some of it is also... well, I think my older brother was right, some people are just begging for abuse. I think I have that - but I never learned to be a good victim, except locally. And some people do have a nasty, unpleasant, but, damn it, human, desire to keep punching once they've landed a good one (verbally, or physically). It's power... "see, I'm succeeding!" When I get hurt, I guess I transmit that "success" sense.  And I used to be a good abuse victim, responding well to the post-abuse honeymoon period, so disgustingly grateful that I didn't lose everything. But I'm not - not any more. And I think that broken pattern is probably harder for one-time abusers to handle.

(I sometimes equate abuse to demonic possession. It's something that can kind of sneak into you (like a demon that can possess you in a time of weakness), and can grow (like a demon finding you're a more willing partner than most), and become harder and harder to exorcise. It's not, you know, truth. WTF cares if there's an actual demon? But it's a damn good model. And for people who are rarely abusive, the 'demon' feeds them a script - you beat him down good, now apologize and everything goes back to  HOLY SHIT! THIS MOTHERFUCKER'S FURIOUS! He's supposed to be beat down and defeated! Doesn't he understand anything?)

I do know that some of what I have mirrors autism, though... it's just... it's a decent partial, local model, but not a good global one... if that makes sense.

(Um. In mathematics, something can be locally true - say, "true in every proper subset" - but not true overall. So, "local model" is like saying "I'm sometimes acting as if I had an ASD, but not frequently enough that I think it's a good model.)

Thank you for mentioning that you're listening, and that you care. It really does matter.

[ljgeoff]

This makes a lot of sense to me! I have family members who experience life in many ways that you do. My first thought is how wonderful humans are, how diverse and amazing.

I can't imagine why anyone would not want their daughters to know how to defend themselves against attack, physical, verbal, or emotional. Let's allow our daughters to be prey, hmm?

[johnpalmer]

I don't think anyone wants their daughters to be defenseless, but I think there's such an ingrained "be polite, and deal with it in a ladylike fashion if you can," that people don't really think too deeply.

Technically speaking, a lot of what happens to teen girls is sexual assault, and everyone knows that's a call for self-defense, and I'd want daughters aware of that, and realize that the big question is an effective defense, using the correct amount of force. I think what breaks is the notion that I'm talking about force first.

Jumping tracks for a moment: I remember one phrase suggested as a response to "it doesn't feel as good with a condom", "does it feel worse than no sex?" which struck me as the sort of thing that most women wouldn't say. And maybe they wouldn't! But if they'd thought about it, role played it, practiced it, and could say it, then I realized they'd be perfectly comfortable with "I know it's not as nice, but I just can't have sex unless you're wearing a condom. I want you, but not enough to put either of us at risk."

If you're ready to get biting if you need to, I thought, you're ready to substitute something firm and more diplomatic. Because you're not saying the biting thing, you're just saying a nibbly thing.

And that's where my thoughts go. If she knows a few armlocks, finger locks, and has smashed a good hammer blow aimed at the bridge of the nose over a mask-wearing instructor while whe's wearing a padded glove, she's ready try diplomacy as well.

[acelightning]

I've been a weirdo all my life. I soon gave up trying to understand the rules I was "supposed" to play by, and concentrated on being correct, knowledgeable, kind, helpful, and entertaining. Eventually that worked. I know we don't interact in person, but if we could, you'd soon find that you don't have to live up to any of society's expectations when you interact with me - nor would I live up to any of them when interacting with you. (On the whole, I think we'd probably have a lot of fun just being weirdos.)

Actually... how dare people impose their expectations on anybody else's behavior? I'd never be that rude to another person! And if I ever catch anybody doing that to you, or to anybody else I consider a friend, the alleged perpetrator is going to get a strong lesson in applied weirdness! (I've had 70 years of practice, and I've gotten pretty good at it, if I do say so myself...)

Try to remember that not all of the people you know have been boiled to sticky stiffness...

[ljgeoff]

You know, John, Acelightning has a good point; How well do you interact with other weirdos?

[acelightning]

From my observations online, he interacts just fine with other weirdos - certainly with me, at least!

(This is proof that weirdos should avoid "normal" people as much as humanly possible, and stick with our own tribes...)

[johnpalmer]

I do well with weirder people, especially those who know some of the same things I do. Tell some people about grenade watch (where I don't *want* to die, but I realize it'd be a net positive to throw myself on a grenade, if it would protect other people - I don't have to keep living, and it's not *suicide* and a burden, but an act of heroism, and a cause for clean grieving) and they freak.

People used to depression get it easily.

Similarly, I'm not worried that discussing shamanism with acelightning will cause her to wonder WTF, etc..

The hard thing is finding the time to find the weirdos when energy is at low ebb most of the time. (But I do have a "library" of them, of sorts.)

[johnpalmer]

Well, in the end, we all impose expectations. It's a question of how reasonable those expectations are. For example, if I had a head injury and was essentially the same person, but a strong Trump supporter, I hope you'd still *care* for me, even if you found yourself unwilling to engage in most political (or likely other, given the magnitude of changes it would take for me to support an incompetent, lying blowhard to lead this country!) discussions with me.

What hurts is how, I know many of these people know that, if someone is angry at you (expressing anger or hurt verbally or in writing), it's as likely that you messed up as it is that they did, and that not everyone communicates the same way, and that, when a friend is in need, you have to accept a bit of discomfort, because friends are important.

The biggest event was somewhat helpful, insofar as I knew the person had done the wrong thing, and that any claim otherwise was gaslighting. But you know something? Knowing that someone is wrong doesn't provide any comfort when a fellow wants to believe that he *matters*, just a bit - just enough for compassion.

Being cast aside hurts, all the more so when the casting aside is because you're not valuable enough to merit just enough compassion to soften whatever blows must be delivered.

But yes, I do know I have good friends. It's just the faith that's broken. (I want to say "the trust" is broken, but what I mean is, I can't completely trust in friendship - that's a very different thing from "I don't trust one or more of my friends". So I think "faith" is a better word.)

[acelightning]

Well, if you had a head injury and suddenly became a Trump supporter, I'd be very kind to you - the way one is when a friend seems to have something very wrong with them that you don't understand. I'd call my son the psychologist, because I already know from many random conversations with him that head injuries don't work that way. I'd ask him to help me understand what actually did go wrong with you, and how I could help you without quite practicing psychology without a license.

Anger is something I still have a problem with. I still don't quite grok, on a fundamental level, that when someone is angry, the real target of their anger is often not what it appears to be. (Theoretical example: I'm driving, and someone attempts to cut in front of me, and I have to swerve and brake. I yell Klingon curses at them, safe inside my car. But I'm really more angry at myself, because I know my attention wavered for an instant, or I would have seen them start to move and not needed to hit the brakes.)

So my first reaction to anger is to try to calm the situation down as best I can. The next step, if possible, is to try to puzzle out who/what the real target is.

I don't cast people aside. If I need to get out of a relationship that's harming me (and it's been decades since that's happened), I always try to do it as humanely as possible.

I'm not bragging about what a wonderful person I am. To me, these are rules of behavior that ought to be fluorescently obvious to any sentient being. Since they're not, I know I'm a weirdo who doesn't fit into mainstream human society. Hi, fellow weirdo!

[dubhain]

We have a number of things in common. Obviously not a 1:1 correspondence, but I can't help but find it remarkable.

I know what you mean about the song "Behind Blue Eyes, f'instance." (Or perhaps I should say that I have a similar reaction to it, as it's impossible to truly know what someone else means by a statement.) And about statements like your Spencer Tracy moment. Yes, intelligence is overrated (and tends to be localized, as well — polymaths are rare,) but admitting to it is a major social faux pas in our culture. I had that rule beaten into me, long ago. (My current 'Good ol' boy' drawl and speech pattern disguises it nicely, with a side effect of leading people to underestimate me — which can be it's own sort of useful, on occasion. *g.*) That said, remembering the song's lyrics, I'd gladly lend you a blanket, or let you wear my coat, FWIW.

If I still could drink, and I still lived in the PNW, I'd insist upon inviting you out for a drink or three. (Yeah. I know. Arm's length. Safer. FWIW, I do care, and I do wish the best for you. Why? The hell do I know? I like you. You're good people, and that's enough for me, even if we've only met in person briefly, and that was years ago.

You tend to chase your own tail rather a lot, but you're decent people. And yeah, you do have that "Been abused and might make a good target" vibe going on. I don't go after it, but I can smell it on people. (My own childhood was abusive as hell, and although I've tamed it I have the family mean streak in me. So, yeah, I can smell it on people. I just never, ever go after it. I will not become like the people who did that to me. Period. I'd take myself out, first, before I'd let that happen.) It's easy to fall back into that...rut isn't the right word, but groove isn't, either. It's kind of like a channel that's been worn into you, from the abuse. I know what that's like, and it can be very easy to fall back into. Especially when you're tired and running upon autopilot.

FWIW, you do have the right to decent treatment, and if I ever do step upon your toes, or hurt you, it'll be unintentionally and accidentally unless you do something really egregious, and then I'll let you know about it, first. (You can count upon that. I'm good at it.) If I do something to cross your boundaries or borders, I want to know about it. How can I refrain from doing it again, if I don't know it's a problem in the first place?

You matter. You matter as a person. You happen to matter to me. Does that mean you're the most important person in my life right now? Well, no. That'd be trelana, and MoxieCat (and I'm not putting that into order. We'll just go with human and non-human people, thanks.) Nonetheless, you do matter to me. I expect you matter to at least some of the people reading and commenting, here, as well. That's...no small thing, if I may be so impertinent. To matter to people, that is.

I'm going through a rough patch, recently. So I'm not always responsive. That doesn't, however, mean you matter any less. I'm not good at expressing this, but it's worth looking like an idiot, so I'm doing it anyhow. To let you know that you're valued. And that your wellbeing is likewise valued. Regardless of being useful, of things you might've done for me in the past. Granted, I'm grateful for that, but you'd matter if none of that had ever happened.

And yeah, I know you can't trust that it's real, nor let yourself believe that it is. The fact that you can't do so doesn't make it any less genuine. Just letting you know that. So don't go swallowing anything evil, y'know?

Take care and be well. Hold onto that hope. It's a metaphorical lodestone. Talked to any Ravens, lately?

[phoenixpdx]

So, I was going to type up this long thing, but this person here, Dubhain, said it all for me. I love you, i hold you in high esteem, I wish good things for you, you are good people and no, you don't have to *do* anything to deserve my time and attention. You are on my mind large chunks of every day. Like it or not...

[johnpalmer]

Thank you, beloved, and I'm glad you know I appreciate you.

[johnpalmer]

Thank you for letting me know about the "bullseye" sense I have - it's not comfortable knowledge, but it's important.

I've had a few really good days lately - those days where I say to myself "yeah, I'm right when I tell ljgeoff that it's not Autism/Autistic spectrum disorder." But damn. My hip is reminding me that my whole body is connected. My *shoulders* are being impacted. ("Dude! It's *HEAD AND SHOULDERS*! Not HIP and shoulders!") And I'm sure I don't need to tell you that waking up at 3am with muscle spasms that won't let you sleep is no fun at all.

Be well, my friend, and be happy, as best as you can.

[dubhain]

I didn't like telling you that you had it, but yeah, you do. That said, you're not responsible for anyone who goes after you because you have it. We're all responsible for our own actions. To bastardize Shatner in A Taste of Armageddon: I may have the family mean streak, but I can choose not to unleash it, today.

Enough "Todays," and it becomes an indefinite, perhaps a forever. Hopefully a forever more.

(Say what you will about Shatner's acting (Kirk was written that way, based upon Horatio Hornblower. Shatner was actually a good actor - as in Stratford Shakespeare Festival good. He was with the festival when it opened.) I learned a lot from that series, and Kirk had a few lines that were invaluable to an abused kid who was trying like hell to figure out how not to be a monster, while being raised by one and groomed to be just like him. But I digress....)

As to Autism: I strongly believe I'm on the scale, in a low-level sense. I'm extremely empathic...except when I'm not. And when it fails, it fails utterly. Most social situations I have a feel for. I can even excel at them. But certain types? I'm completely incompetent at them. I can't parse them at all, and I make an utter hash of them. Every. Dammed. Time. Thing is, I model and approximate so well that I get by with covering most of the time. Until I fall flat on my face. Spectacularly. I even have some of the childhood classic symptoms of low-level Autism / Asperger's. But because I manage so well, it gets pooh-poohed. Am I on the scale? Probably at the very low end. Will it ever be diagnosed? Probably not. I manage.

I get the muscle spasms thing. My chronic pain is different, but...yeah. Lately, we've been having no end of rain here, plus we've just had a Tropical Storm miss us. The accompanying pain has been...remarkable. I've had days when I've woken-up and my mid-back has been so bad that I haven't been able to get out of bed until 13:00 or so. Not good. Haven't woken-up in the night with spasms, yet. That's been the return of the PTSD nightmares. (Frankly, I'd rather have the spasms, not to trivialize your pain. I just prefer physical pain to nightmares as a cause of not sleeping, is all.)

And yeah: Once everything starts re-aligning, the muscle and joint strain upon every other body part that subsequently re-aligns is...just...special. Takes forFREAKINGever for it to work its way through, as I recall. No fun, indeed.

Glad you've been having a good couple of days. You deserve them. Treat yourself well, eh? May you find what you need, and a bit more, besides.