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Jan. 7th, 2015 09:30 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
johnpalmerOne of the things I've had to learn about depression is that it's important to keep in mind that there's a lot of advice out there that is based upon estimates of how normal people will react. And in many cases, it's not bad advice, but it's advice that you need to measure against the assumptions that are being made.
For example: one of the common signs of troubles is "avoiding social situations". This can be a sign of a problem ("you have anxiety, and therefore avoid social situations - this is a problem we will try to overcome") or it can be an effect of a problem ("you are depressed, and don't have the energy or interest in going into social situations; this is hurting you").
The idea is that people are social creatures. They are. That's true - not just as a generality, but so universally that I'm not sure if there are any exceptions. With six, seven billion people on this earth, I reckon it's possible that there are exceptions - but if so, they might be such outliers we couldn't be sure what we were observing.
But that doesn't mean social contact is an unalloyed good, either. There's two aspects to it.
First is one that's a bit of a meme among people I know - there are people who are extroverts, and generally feel better for being around people, and tend to want people to "recharge" and there are those who are introverts, who often are most comfortable alone, and might have to spend energy to be around others (sometimes just a little, sometimes quite a bit). And I imagine (from my own experience) that there's some shifting around on this spectrum. I'm never exactly an extrovert, but there are times I want and need people and recharge in a social situation, while most of the time, I need some solitude to rest up and recharge.
So: there's a matter of your needs, and how other people fit into them. This is important, and, as I said, it might vary, but it's also something you can probably learn about, to the point that you can pinpoint what you want or need at any given time.
The other is that social contact has to serve a purpose. And it doesn't. Not always.
I mentioned two examples above: a person is anxious, and avoiding social situations, or a person is depressed, and has no energy or interest.
Well - what about a person who is so anxious at the time of a social situation that all of his or her energy will go toward maintaining composure. Is social contact going to serve a purpose here? Well, it might, briefly. Maybe you need to step up to the metaphorical plate, and see if the anxiety is just a generalized fear that the whole room is going to freeze as you walk in the door, and say "Hey, look who thinks *we* want to see him/her!" right before they all start laughing themselves silly at the idea that you - YOU - belong in a social gathering.
In all seriousness, that never happens - not even in a John Hughes movie. (Yet. And if it does, the bastard owes me royalties!)
More seriously: sometimes you need to walk in the room, see that nothing explodes, talk to a few people, and decide you're not having fun - no, really, you're not, and you're not relaxing, either, so it's time to leave.
This is not some kind of defeat. This is wisdom, and self knowledge. It also sucks, especially if you've gotten yourself dressed up nice, and driven an hour to get here, but in all seriousness, it's *not* a defeat. Still - you might find it good to bail for a bit, before bailing permanently. Do some breathing exercises. One that I learned that's surprisingly effective is - deep, deep, diaphragm expanding breath - then breath out against resistance. Purse your lips - make it an effort to breathe out. This is supposed to cause your vagus nerve to be stimulated, and this tends to move you from "fight or flight" mode back into normal living mode.
(Yeah, I didn't believe it either. Yeah, I thought it was stupid. No, it doesn't always work - or, doesn't work as well as I'd like. But isn't that better than driving home and realizing that you could maybe have hung out another half hour or hour, and maybe spoken with X_Special_Friend?)
Alternately, sometimes you might walk in, work the room a few minutes, and realize you're not scared or anxious any more. If so, *great*. Go have fun!
Similarly, if you're depressed - depression can be a funny bugger. Some people really can't feel any pleasure when depressed. The happiest thing in the world becomes all "meh, can we do this again some day when the world isn't a despicable vomitus of grey blah?" But sometimes people just can't anticipate anything feeling good - if they have a good time by surprise, so to speak, they might have fun. And other times, a person might be kind of on the edge. If things don't get better, they slide deeper into the pit; if they get better, though, a person just might scramble out into the light, onto beautiful terra firma.
Some days, a depressed person knows the energy just isn't there - it's gone, kaput, they can go to the social gathering, sit in some far off corner, and perform a good impression of a bump on a log. This can not only be useless, it can be counter-productive. As unfair as it is, most people don't have enough time in their lives to say "I wonder if that far off person who seems completely disengaged is actually a fascinating person if I spend enough time trying to get to know them, in spite of the deep depression that will thwart my best efforts to learn anything except that they are deeply depressed?" And there... well, I'm going to be kicked out of the Wise Armchair Psychologists Association for this, but, there, your best option is probably to stay home, and conserve your energy. Plus, you won't be that oddball they saw at the last gathering, sitting like a bump on a log.
Maybe - I've done this from time to time - maybe consider doing something that might make it easier if you want to give the next social gathering a go.
Other times, it might be time to dust off the old social muscles and see if they're going to flex today. Sometimes they will, even if a bit atrophied, and you might find the social kinks are working out, and you're back on the upward slope again. Or even if that doesn't happen, even if depression is going to keep you in its claws for a while, maybe you'll have a good time, and that's nothing to put aside, when good days are few and far between.
The key is to know yourself, your needs, and try to outsmart your problems when you can.
For example: one of the common signs of troubles is "avoiding social situations". This can be a sign of a problem ("you have anxiety, and therefore avoid social situations - this is a problem we will try to overcome") or it can be an effect of a problem ("you are depressed, and don't have the energy or interest in going into social situations; this is hurting you").
The idea is that people are social creatures. They are. That's true - not just as a generality, but so universally that I'm not sure if there are any exceptions. With six, seven billion people on this earth, I reckon it's possible that there are exceptions - but if so, they might be such outliers we couldn't be sure what we were observing.
But that doesn't mean social contact is an unalloyed good, either. There's two aspects to it.
First is one that's a bit of a meme among people I know - there are people who are extroverts, and generally feel better for being around people, and tend to want people to "recharge" and there are those who are introverts, who often are most comfortable alone, and might have to spend energy to be around others (sometimes just a little, sometimes quite a bit). And I imagine (from my own experience) that there's some shifting around on this spectrum. I'm never exactly an extrovert, but there are times I want and need people and recharge in a social situation, while most of the time, I need some solitude to rest up and recharge.
So: there's a matter of your needs, and how other people fit into them. This is important, and, as I said, it might vary, but it's also something you can probably learn about, to the point that you can pinpoint what you want or need at any given time.
The other is that social contact has to serve a purpose. And it doesn't. Not always.
I mentioned two examples above: a person is anxious, and avoiding social situations, or a person is depressed, and has no energy or interest.
Well - what about a person who is so anxious at the time of a social situation that all of his or her energy will go toward maintaining composure. Is social contact going to serve a purpose here? Well, it might, briefly. Maybe you need to step up to the metaphorical plate, and see if the anxiety is just a generalized fear that the whole room is going to freeze as you walk in the door, and say "Hey, look who thinks *we* want to see him/her!" right before they all start laughing themselves silly at the idea that you - YOU - belong in a social gathering.
In all seriousness, that never happens - not even in a John Hughes movie. (Yet. And if it does, the bastard owes me royalties!)
More seriously: sometimes you need to walk in the room, see that nothing explodes, talk to a few people, and decide you're not having fun - no, really, you're not, and you're not relaxing, either, so it's time to leave.
This is not some kind of defeat. This is wisdom, and self knowledge. It also sucks, especially if you've gotten yourself dressed up nice, and driven an hour to get here, but in all seriousness, it's *not* a defeat. Still - you might find it good to bail for a bit, before bailing permanently. Do some breathing exercises. One that I learned that's surprisingly effective is - deep, deep, diaphragm expanding breath - then breath out against resistance. Purse your lips - make it an effort to breathe out. This is supposed to cause your vagus nerve to be stimulated, and this tends to move you from "fight or flight" mode back into normal living mode.
(Yeah, I didn't believe it either. Yeah, I thought it was stupid. No, it doesn't always work - or, doesn't work as well as I'd like. But isn't that better than driving home and realizing that you could maybe have hung out another half hour or hour, and maybe spoken with X_Special_Friend?)
Alternately, sometimes you might walk in, work the room a few minutes, and realize you're not scared or anxious any more. If so, *great*. Go have fun!
Similarly, if you're depressed - depression can be a funny bugger. Some people really can't feel any pleasure when depressed. The happiest thing in the world becomes all "meh, can we do this again some day when the world isn't a despicable vomitus of grey blah?" But sometimes people just can't anticipate anything feeling good - if they have a good time by surprise, so to speak, they might have fun. And other times, a person might be kind of on the edge. If things don't get better, they slide deeper into the pit; if they get better, though, a person just might scramble out into the light, onto beautiful terra firma.
Some days, a depressed person knows the energy just isn't there - it's gone, kaput, they can go to the social gathering, sit in some far off corner, and perform a good impression of a bump on a log. This can not only be useless, it can be counter-productive. As unfair as it is, most people don't have enough time in their lives to say "I wonder if that far off person who seems completely disengaged is actually a fascinating person if I spend enough time trying to get to know them, in spite of the deep depression that will thwart my best efforts to learn anything except that they are deeply depressed?" And there... well, I'm going to be kicked out of the Wise Armchair Psychologists Association for this, but, there, your best option is probably to stay home, and conserve your energy. Plus, you won't be that oddball they saw at the last gathering, sitting like a bump on a log.
Maybe - I've done this from time to time - maybe consider doing something that might make it easier if you want to give the next social gathering a go.
Other times, it might be time to dust off the old social muscles and see if they're going to flex today. Sometimes they will, even if a bit atrophied, and you might find the social kinks are working out, and you're back on the upward slope again. Or even if that doesn't happen, even if depression is going to keep you in its claws for a while, maybe you'll have a good time, and that's nothing to put aside, when good days are few and far between.
The key is to know yourself, your needs, and try to outsmart your problems when you can.
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Thoughtful post
Date: 2015-01-08 10:22 am (UTC)One of the things I carried away from my stepdad's religion is "it's true if it's true for you," which is not a cop-out, but a reassurance (for me) that my weird, outlier /crap/ is /still/ a perfectly valid reaction to whatever the problem is.
A physical example? I can't tell my left from my right. You would probably be either laughing or in tears if I actually counted up how many times that statement has gotten people /arguing/ with me that "it's not true," or "you're just under-counting the times you get it right," or any of the bazillion other ways people jump in to "prove" that I'm not such a terrible outlier in this particular area.
You know what?
,
They're all wrong. So wrong, in fact, that I'm glad I'm not into petty paybacks, because me giving directions SHOULD be a horror movie meme. "Guaranteed to get people lost. I didn't know you could even MAKE portals to that dimension," et cetera.
But it took time to trust that I was actually THE expert on me. Dealing with your needs makes you the expert for yourself, too.
I'm glad you're willing to keep working on solutions.
Re: Thoughtful post
Date: 2015-01-08 11:09 am (UTC)People don't realize that some of my anti-knacks are in fact field effects until hit by them. I once had a boss and a delivery man have hysterics because they couldn't count the boxen and get the same number twice running. (I was trying not to pee myself laughing.) Another boss drove in circles for over an hour trying to find a building she'd already been to a bunch of times, just because it had become unfindable with me in it.
Thoughts
Date: 2015-01-08 11:07 am (UTC)Or it could be necessary maintenance for a healthy introvert.
Or it could be an extremely advisable safety precaution when the people in proximity are abusive, manipulative, or otherwise more trouble than they are worth.
It's more likely a danger sign when someone formerly sociable becomes less and less so, in the absence of unpleasant social experiences with the same people.
>> The other is that social contact has to serve a purpose. And it doesn't. Not always. <<
It should, or you really are pouring energy down a rat hole. Possible purposes:
* Having fun.
* Maintaining relationships.
* Doing a favor for people who want to see you.
* Gathering information.
* Relaxing.
* Meeting new friends.
* Free booze/food/toys/etc.
* Getting laid.
* Inviting people to your event.
* Shutting up the ones nagging you to do stuff.
* Meeting professional obligations.
* Networking.
* People-watching.
* Inspiration for stuff you're writing/drawing/etc.
* Getting out of the house.
* Practicing a specific social skill.
* Showing off your car/clothes/jewelry/etc.
You can see how most of these cater to extroverts, are of less interest to introverts, and are burdensome to people with depression or anxiety or about a million other challenges. Or small children. Or three jobs.
>> The key is to know yourself, your needs, and try to outsmart your problems when you can. <<
Agreed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with skipping social events if they do you no good or actively cause harm. If you want to go, or would find benefit in going, and something holds you back -- then you have a problem to solve.
no subject
Date: 2015-01-08 10:50 pm (UTC)I really, really despise the Introvert/Extrovert meme you describe above. First of all, because it stereotypes, and even more than that, it forces everyone into one of two, binary, stereotypes. One is either an "Introvert" or an "Extravert." And as the meme is being pushed by folks who identify as one of the groups (the former,) there are significant "Us against them," "Good people / Bad people," and "Abuser / Victim" undercurrents to it. Most every iteration of that meme paints "Introverts" as poor, innocent, somehow intellectually superior victims who are preyed upon by brash, pushy, vulgar "Extroverts" who bully and vampirically drain the poor introverts they prey upon of their "Energy" by forcing them to interact socially with said "Extroverts."
There are so, so many things wrong with this portrayal, from the binary stereotyping, to the dehumanization of one category, to the abuser / victim casting. Basically it parallels the fundamentalist Christian Good / Evil false dichotomy, which is rampant within our culture. Its use of the words, themselves, is inept, as they are meant to be used to describe a trait, rather than to denote what's being presented as practically two different races or subspecies.
If I wanted to create a counter-meme, I might paint "Extroverts" as caring, giving people who care and are interested in the happiness and well-being of other people and the world around them, versus "Introverts," who are selfish, only concerned with themselves, and who don't give a damn about anyone or anything, so long as they, themselves are content. It would fit the definition of both words, given the same sort of interpretation and extrapolation the existing meme uses.
Yes, human beings are social animals. Truth be told, we're more herd than pack animals, which we prefer not to admit to ourselves. This doesn't mean that we always crave social interaction, or that some folks don't enjoy social interaction more than others. Also, intro/extroversion can be quite fluid, depending upon factors such as age, stress, changes in socioeconomic status, &c.
And social interaction has a very definite function, among human beings. It tends to keep us sane. It provides 'reality checks,' which tend to be vital to human sanity. The more severe the degree of isolation a human being endures, the more they're likely to go mad. Which, of course, is why punishments such as shunning and solitary confinement work so well as they do. And why people who are isolated to extreme degrees tend to go insane, and why when folks with clinical depression and other mental health issues isolate, their symptoms tend to get worse, not better.
This isn't to say that shy, introverted folk should be somehow forced into social interaction, or that they're somehow 'Bad' or 'Deficient.' Nor does it imply that social interaction is some sort of panacea in terms of mental health or any other issue. Hell, I'm a rather shy person, myself, and I need frequent periods of alone time to 'recharge.' However, the last thing our society needs is yet another "Us -vs- Them" false dichotomy, stereotyping members of both classes and vilifying one of them.
"The key is to know yourself, your needs, and try to outsmart your problems when you can."
Oh, indeed. I'd also suggest that another key is knowing yourself well enough to realize that you have a given problem in the first place. *g.*
no subject
Date: 2015-01-23 06:05 pm (UTC)I don't like it because it's too simple, sometimes. But I did like some. There was one that showed a good interaction - basically "there's your introvert friend - go in, say hi, you're glad to see them, and then sit near (not too near) them, and maybe just be there. I thought that was good starter advice... more advanced topics might be "try a conversational gambit and be aware of the difference between 'boring topic' and 'I don't really want to talk'."
I kind of like the idea of flipping the stereotype on its head - but it's one of those types of teaching that's best introduced at the right time by the right person. I remember the day I realized that extroversion was a good defensive mechanism in a small bit - if no one knows *anything* about me, I'm that quiet guy who seems kinda weird and standoffish. Whereas, if I spend a few awkward moments with them, I'm that quiet guy, really shy, but seems kinda nice.
But I could only see that because I was ready to. Up until that point, I was all, "well, I haven't done *anything* bad to them, why should they feel negatively toward me?"
(NB: I'm not saying it's a bad idea! I'm just saying that I think it's the idea that would hit *perfectly* if delivered at just the right time, but otherwise might seem like "but you just don't *understand*...")
(Re: editing, I only remember a joking exchange "wee hav kidnappped your pruf reeder..." "hoo kneads a pruf-reeder?")
no subject
Date: 2015-01-08 08:03 pm (UTC)Anyway, as an always-introvert even when not depressed, I finally tricked myself into going to gatherings of people by giving myself permission to leave in an hour if it just wasn't working for me. (And interestingly, the problem was only with being social - I could, and did! go to the symphony or opera or a movie or a restaurant by myself, no problems at all.) Weird, the way our brains function, or don't function.
But yeah, self-knowledge of what will work and what will make things worse is the first thing needed.
no subject
Date: 2015-01-23 05:01 am (UTC)