Good news, kinda

[johnpalmer]

So... I've been studying programming, and trying to learn that Big Breakthrough that will make me stop thinking programming is so impossibly hard and complicated.

I still haven't hit it. I was hoping that my studies of Visual C++ and the Microsoft Foundation Classes would contain it, but they haven't

But I'm learning.

I was studying VB .net, and thinking to myself "Geez, this Common Language Runtime sounds just like the Java Virtual Machine."

Next day, I find out that only C++ .net allows you to make "real windows programs" (i.e., programs that run without the CLR).

Next day (today) I find out that the CLR *IS* just like the Java Virtual Machine.

I'm learning. Not as fast as I'd like to be, but I'm learning. And, just like the usual way I learn, I'm seeing the grand, sweeping patterns, and having troubles with the details. That's a good thing, I think.

Comments

Um.

[eleccham.livejournal.com]

My unsolicited $.02, FWIW...

VB isn't bad to learn on... BUT, you'll have to break a great lot of bad habits if you want to then write good Java or C++.

Personally, I'm mostly no longer able to write in VB - the number of times that I've started it up, gotten twenty lines into a program, and realized that "I can't get there from here" has just pissed me off too much. My estimation is that by and large, VB is very very good for writing user interfaces with a wee bit of code behind them... but not much else.

The other thing I can suggest is... you might not want to start by learning MFC. It's six pains in the ass... it confuses me and I've been programming... well, basically since I could read and write. I can do it, but it's really annoying. I'd suggest starting with straight C++ and the standard libraries.

Have you gotten your hands on a good OO design (NOT programming) book? That might well do more to increase your understanding of programming as much as learning the language.

Re: Um.

[johnpalmer.livejournal.com]

Do you know of any good OO design books? That's actually one of the things that's been bugging me. I'm a 'big picture' thinker, but I need enough background to understand things, and I've often been lost by books that try to present theory. I think I'm ready to give theory a shot, now, though... I've got lots of Java and C++ reading under my belt.

I'm certainly not hooked on the MFC ("Microsoft Foundation Classes", for those of you reading along who don't know), nor on VB... VB is my "But I could get an honest-to-goodness job as a programmer!" hope.

My big trouble is the feeling that there's so much out there, and I don't know how to do more than scratch the surface on my own, and I'm almost always feeling ready to walk away because "I'll never be able to do it". Every time I think I'm understanding more, it seems as if I either find myself being babytalked, or see things going way over my head.

Can you write a Windows program using standard classes? (I'd assume that it wouldn't be as efficient as if you use the MFC, but I mean make a window, put text on it, accept input through it, etc.? CLI drives me batty after a taste of VB) I'd love to learn Linux, or BSD, but right now I need to learn Cisco and desperately don't want to lose my 'learn to program' groove.

Re: Um.

[eleccham.livejournal.com]

I asked around at work, and people generally agreed that the two best books for such are
one by Ivar Jacobsen for a general OO design overview, and
one by Bjorne Strousup for a C++-centric one.

Hope that this helps...