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johnpalmerThis is, if you couldn't gets, about the Iraq situation, and Rumsfeld's testimony in particular.
If you don't want to read it, I'm putting it behind a cut tag; I make no promises that anyone will not be offended.
Let me get this straight... Rumsfeld wishes he'd had more information to give to Congress, earlier.
This incompetent, unthinking *idiot* knew full well about the abuses that we were already engaged in. He already knew that we were doing terrible things to people.
And anyone, from 2nd Looie on up (and *any* intelligent noncom), should know that you *NEVER* send men to do nasty things to people without oversight and discipline unless you *want* atrocities.
We were depriving prisoners of sleep; we were frightening them; we were playing every mind game we could, we were keeping them in uncomfortable positions, we were keeping them hooded, and cuffed, for days at a time, and we were blaring music in their ears for days at a time. If anyone out there thinks this isn't torture in the vernacular sense, and probably ought to be in any legal sense, well, I'd like to see *you* volunteer for a weekend of this kind of treatment. And please note, that's *BEFORE* we get into the stuff that was photographed and recently released.
*ANYONE*, even the least competent 90-day wonder should know that this requires *CAREFUL* oversight, because you're telling these men to do shitty things to people, so you've got to make sure that they do only the shitty things that you expect them to.
*WHERE WAS THAT OVERSIGHT*?
"We wish we'd had information to give you" in this situation is semantically equivalent to "we were complete incompetents and should all be busted to buck privates and digging latrines".
Because, you see, unless *EVERY SINGLE PRISONER* was going to vanish from the public eye, forever (or at least until we left Iraq), we needed to know that the number of complaints that would show up would be so small, and so minor, compared to the prisoners who said it was prison, sure, but it was three hots and a cot, clean, and you weren't bullied, that it wouldn't anger the Iraqis about the people who invaded, conquered, and are occupying their country.
I mean, *GOD DAMN*. Don't these idiots have *ANY* idea of how they look?
Bush went in before the UN, bound and determined to have his war, and his administration and supporters roundly mocked everything that could be an 'excuse' not to go to war. Do they think the Iraqis don't notice?
Do they think it's impossible for the Iraqis to find out that Bush supporters include people who say crap like "we should conquer all their countries and convert them all to Christianity", or who say that Mohammed was a terrorist?
Do they think the Iraqis can't notice that Bush has waved off all help that doesn't come completely under his direction? Do they think that the Iraqis can't wonder *why* he wants this so badly, and keep expecting that he's looking for some major payoff, which will come from them?
I mean, *FORGET* whether any of these accusations are *fair*. Just ask if they could *look* fair to a person living in a country that's been taken over by foreigners.
I could accept that someone with no competence in planning an occupation could realize that prisoner treatment wasn't going to be a major issue, and needed careful oversight. But not anyone who decides that they know how to run an occupation, thank you very much, and walks into a shitstorm, head held high, and insists it's naught but perfume.
The excuse that he didn't know about it any earlier is akin to a defense that he didn't know a six-shooter was loaded before he shot someone six times with it. You might believe the first shot, but somewhere between the second and sixth shots, you figure that anyone who didn't make it their business to know was being willfully blind.
If you don't want to read it, I'm putting it behind a cut tag; I make no promises that anyone will not be offended.
Let me get this straight... Rumsfeld wishes he'd had more information to give to Congress, earlier.
This incompetent, unthinking *idiot* knew full well about the abuses that we were already engaged in. He already knew that we were doing terrible things to people.
And anyone, from 2nd Looie on up (and *any* intelligent noncom), should know that you *NEVER* send men to do nasty things to people without oversight and discipline unless you *want* atrocities.
We were depriving prisoners of sleep; we were frightening them; we were playing every mind game we could, we were keeping them in uncomfortable positions, we were keeping them hooded, and cuffed, for days at a time, and we were blaring music in their ears for days at a time. If anyone out there thinks this isn't torture in the vernacular sense, and probably ought to be in any legal sense, well, I'd like to see *you* volunteer for a weekend of this kind of treatment. And please note, that's *BEFORE* we get into the stuff that was photographed and recently released.
*ANYONE*, even the least competent 90-day wonder should know that this requires *CAREFUL* oversight, because you're telling these men to do shitty things to people, so you've got to make sure that they do only the shitty things that you expect them to.
*WHERE WAS THAT OVERSIGHT*?
"We wish we'd had information to give you" in this situation is semantically equivalent to "we were complete incompetents and should all be busted to buck privates and digging latrines".
Because, you see, unless *EVERY SINGLE PRISONER* was going to vanish from the public eye, forever (or at least until we left Iraq), we needed to know that the number of complaints that would show up would be so small, and so minor, compared to the prisoners who said it was prison, sure, but it was three hots and a cot, clean, and you weren't bullied, that it wouldn't anger the Iraqis about the people who invaded, conquered, and are occupying their country.
I mean, *GOD DAMN*. Don't these idiots have *ANY* idea of how they look?
Bush went in before the UN, bound and determined to have his war, and his administration and supporters roundly mocked everything that could be an 'excuse' not to go to war. Do they think the Iraqis don't notice?
Do they think it's impossible for the Iraqis to find out that Bush supporters include people who say crap like "we should conquer all their countries and convert them all to Christianity", or who say that Mohammed was a terrorist?
Do they think the Iraqis can't notice that Bush has waved off all help that doesn't come completely under his direction? Do they think that the Iraqis can't wonder *why* he wants this so badly, and keep expecting that he's looking for some major payoff, which will come from them?
I mean, *FORGET* whether any of these accusations are *fair*. Just ask if they could *look* fair to a person living in a country that's been taken over by foreigners.
I could accept that someone with no competence in planning an occupation could realize that prisoner treatment wasn't going to be a major issue, and needed careful oversight. But not anyone who decides that they know how to run an occupation, thank you very much, and walks into a shitstorm, head held high, and insists it's naught but perfume.
The excuse that he didn't know about it any earlier is akin to a defense that he didn't know a six-shooter was loaded before he shot someone six times with it. You might believe the first shot, but somewhere between the second and sixth shots, you figure that anyone who didn't make it their business to know was being willfully blind.
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no subject
Date: 2004-05-08 10:52 pm (UTC)I mean ... Jesus ... if Those At The Top aren't capable of keeping an eye on the so-called Good Guys under their own command, why should we have any confidence that they're capable of keeping an eye on the Bad Guys?
no subject
Date: 2004-05-09 08:44 am (UTC)"
Yeah, bet he does...
KBR, which is a divison of Haliburton, is responsible for delivering mail to the troops, and for providing internet access for them. As of a couple of days ago, all of the troops have had their access shut down for 90 days [or so they say] and their mail is being censored, when it just doesn't go missing.
The minor newsies also rent satellite uplink time from KBR. Thus all information coming put of Iraq is now under the control of the mainstream media, and we know who's pockets they're in.
You can read about in
Looks like damage limitation is in full affect. and Rumsfeld is lying through his teeth while shedding crocodile tears. [ugh, bad mixed metaphor, sorry].
no subject
Date: 2004-05-10 07:16 am (UTC)http://english.aljazeera.net