(no subject)
Feb. 11th, 2002 03:56 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
johnpalmerOkay, so if anyone's wondering, yes, the woman (henceforth "E.") I was negotiating with decided I was too needy for her tastes. And it sucks.
At the same time, she was the one making demands, though they were negative. And, she asked me to be honest, and not censor myself, but then made her decisions based upon things I would have censored had she not asked me to do otherwise.
The trouble when you're socially clumsy is that the "well, it's her loss" line doesn't really help. Because once you've broken the first, most frightening barrier, and have hope, to lose that hope is still a loss.
Yeah, it probably *IS* her loss... but it's also mine.
And it doesn't help me figure out where to go next. It's like looking a brick wall that you have to break down with your fists. You know other people have done it, but maybe they had a plasterboard wall... or maybe they knew where to hit... or maybe they knew that if you punched in one spot, over and over, they'd get through, or that you have to keep hitting everywhere, looking for a weak spot.
The hard thing is, you know that if you don't punch as hard as you can, you don't have a chance at breaking through. But you start to flinch at the pain before you throw your punch. And it's not just a matter of will... it's not just "if you can forget the pain, and force yourself, you'll throw a good punch". You have to know how. And each attempt hurts. And you don't know if anyone can teach you to try without all that pain.
Sigh. At least in newsgroups, I have a chance. I can talk, and let people see the contents of my mind, and appreciate a bit of who I am, before they meet me.
But even that's scary... too often, I don't know the other people well enough to feel comfortable with them, because of my screwed up memory. And... and because of the fear.
A very dear friend of mine and I were corresponding in email. When we finally met, I wanted to hold her, to hug her, and kiss her. I wanted to see a smile on her lips and feel that it was there partly because of me.
I couldn't... the fear was there, too strong. I would reach out, and demand too much. I would impose.
We kissed before I left... she later said she was surprised I didn't know it would happen. And how can you explain it?
People will laugh. They'll scorn you. Just putting up with you is a burden. Good heavens, don't add to the burden by asking them for something.
The very concept that I could be denying someone something by not giving part of me to them is one I have a hard time understanding. That is, that I was denying her my kisses by being afraid to ask for hers, was just something that I wasn't capable of thinking about. I could only formulate it in terms of "I want/will she give?" not "does she want/should I offer?"
I had another minor epiphany when talking to Sharon and Liz (a couple of friends I met over the weekend, but I'm not sure if it'll help.
They were talking about music and playing to the audience... I'm pretty sure that's how it came out. The idea was to look at what the audience wanted.
But... how could you do that when you don't know what the audience wants, I wondered.
Maybe they were good enough that they could read the audience a bit like one lover reads another? And part of it was 'just trying' stuff, but watching the reactions?
If so, the problem is that, in the art of person-to-person interaction, I'm an untried virgin with no specific fantasies, and terrified that no one wants to 'do' an inexperienced person, and I'm afraid that the best I can hope for is a 'fake orgasm'.
Then again, sooner or later, if you want to have sex, you have to go to bed a virgin in hopes of ending the situation.
laugh-with-cynical-overtone... but I have erectile difficulties, and there isn't any viagra for this condition. Tough thing for a virgin to deal with.
At the same time, she was the one making demands, though they were negative. And, she asked me to be honest, and not censor myself, but then made her decisions based upon things I would have censored had she not asked me to do otherwise.
The trouble when you're socially clumsy is that the "well, it's her loss" line doesn't really help. Because once you've broken the first, most frightening barrier, and have hope, to lose that hope is still a loss.
Yeah, it probably *IS* her loss... but it's also mine.
And it doesn't help me figure out where to go next. It's like looking a brick wall that you have to break down with your fists. You know other people have done it, but maybe they had a plasterboard wall... or maybe they knew where to hit... or maybe they knew that if you punched in one spot, over and over, they'd get through, or that you have to keep hitting everywhere, looking for a weak spot.
The hard thing is, you know that if you don't punch as hard as you can, you don't have a chance at breaking through. But you start to flinch at the pain before you throw your punch. And it's not just a matter of will... it's not just "if you can forget the pain, and force yourself, you'll throw a good punch". You have to know how. And each attempt hurts. And you don't know if anyone can teach you to try without all that pain.
Sigh. At least in newsgroups, I have a chance. I can talk, and let people see the contents of my mind, and appreciate a bit of who I am, before they meet me.
But even that's scary... too often, I don't know the other people well enough to feel comfortable with them, because of my screwed up memory. And... and because of the fear.
A very dear friend of mine and I were corresponding in email. When we finally met, I wanted to hold her, to hug her, and kiss her. I wanted to see a smile on her lips and feel that it was there partly because of me.
I couldn't... the fear was there, too strong. I would reach out, and demand too much. I would impose.
We kissed before I left... she later said she was surprised I didn't know it would happen. And how can you explain it?
People will laugh. They'll scorn you. Just putting up with you is a burden. Good heavens, don't add to the burden by asking them for something.
The very concept that I could be denying someone something by not giving part of me to them is one I have a hard time understanding. That is, that I was denying her my kisses by being afraid to ask for hers, was just something that I wasn't capable of thinking about. I could only formulate it in terms of "I want/will she give?" not "does she want/should I offer?"
I had another minor epiphany when talking to Sharon and Liz (a couple of friends I met over the weekend, but I'm not sure if it'll help.
They were talking about music and playing to the audience... I'm pretty sure that's how it came out. The idea was to look at what the audience wanted.
But... how could you do that when you don't know what the audience wants, I wondered.
Maybe they were good enough that they could read the audience a bit like one lover reads another? And part of it was 'just trying' stuff, but watching the reactions?
If so, the problem is that, in the art of person-to-person interaction, I'm an untried virgin with no specific fantasies, and terrified that no one wants to 'do' an inexperienced person, and I'm afraid that the best I can hope for is a 'fake orgasm'.
Then again, sooner or later, if you want to have sex, you have to go to bed a virgin in hopes of ending the situation.
laugh-with-cynical-overtone... but I have erectile difficulties, and there isn't any viagra for this condition. Tough thing for a virgin to deal with.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Pardon my Zen
Date: 2002-02-11 10:18 am (UTC)And it doesn't help me figure out where to go next. It's like looking a brick wall that you have to break down with your fists. You know other people have done it, but maybe they had a plasterboard wall... or maybe they knew where to hit... or maybe they knew that if you punched in one spot, over and over, they'd get through, or that you have to keep hitting everywhere, looking for a weak spot.
The hard thing is, you know that if you don't punch as hard as you can, you don't have a chance at breaking through. But you start to flinch at the pain before you throw your punch. And it's not just a matter of will... it's not just "if you can forget the pain, and force yourself, you'll throw a good punch". You have to know how. And each attempt hurts. And you don't know if anyone can teach you to try without all that pain.
John, I wonder if you need a new metaphor.
As long as you see the perceived barrier as a brick wall, you're going to keep punching, and (IME, IMO) all that punching only serves to make people fortify their barriers. You wind up with bloody fists, but the damned wall just keeps getting thicker.
But remember that people's barriers are permeable. They're less like a wall than like a moat. You may not know how deep they are, you may not know if they're infested with crocodiles, but if you can learn to float - saying, "Here I am," presenting yourself as who you are, no more, no less, and allowing the person within the time to really *see* you - there's a pretty fair chance that they'll lower a drawbridge, or throw you a rope. Instead of "breaking through," you might just be able to swim.
Have you read Joseph Campbell? In the Power of Myth he recounts a story of the temptations of Buddha - not unlike Christ, only the temptations presented to him as he sat beneath the bo tree were the temptations of lust, of fear and - this one's the biggie - of submission to public opinion, or doing as one is told/expected. It's too long to repeat here, the point is that learning to deal with those temptations is the key that releases us from life's fear.
I'd like to lend you that book sometime ...
no subject
Date: 2002-02-11 04:31 pm (UTC)Then one day it turned around. Instead of "Well, they have to like me...they're my friends" it became "Hey, these people are my friends...maybe I'm worthy of them!" I still remember exactly the moment it happened (in the shower, naturally, as all my greatest revelations happen in the shower).
I still have a great deal of trouble imposing myself on other people - calling on the phone unless I know they're expecting to hear from me; asking them to accompany me to something I want to go to; and, yes, asking for that kiss. It's one of the reasons communicating in e-mail appeals so much - I know I'm not imposing on someone's time and they can answer me whenever they feel like it.
The list of people I trust with all of myself is very small - but it seems ever-so-slowly to be growing. I take that as a good sign.
As for E., well, she asked you to be you, you were, she didn't like what she saw. It sucks. But hiding who you really are wouldn't have worked either. But then, you know that.
[hugs]
Rhona
Re: Pardon my Zen
Date: 2002-02-11 06:36 pm (UTC)John, I wonder if you need a new metaphor.
As long as you see the perceived barrier as a brick wall, you're going to keep punching, and (IME, IMO) all that punching only serves to make people fortify their barriers. You wind up with bloody fists, but the damned wall just keeps getting thicker.
I guess I wasn't clear enough about the metaphor. The brick wall isn't around anyone else. It's around me, keeping me in.
If I break down the wall, I will assume that introducing myself might be a bit of pleasantness to two people, even if we decide we're both the type who'd bore the pants off each other (or on each other, depending on context).
If I break down the wall, I won't have fear draining 3/4ths of my energy at gatherings, since that things more likely to go wrong to reinforce those fears.
If I break down the wall, I won't have any fear of ending up a recluse by default, because "finding and meeting a few people to chat with" won't seem like a huge, insurmountable obstacle that can't be broken down in smaller pieces.
See, it's not a problem with individuals... it's a problem with the entire concept of socializing. Part of it's the brain fog (where anything that isn't important is too much bother to do anything about), and part of it's leftover anxiety from a lifetime of teasing and criticism at the hands of family members, so I still feel like I'm a bother unless I'm obviously not.
One of the reasons I'm trying hard to find friends and play partners in the BDSM community here is not just that it'd be nice to have play partners... it's also that this is, in a sense, my biggest fear. This is where I most feel like I'm imposing on someone else, and where I least feel able to provide 'equal value' in return.
Re: Pardon my Zen
Date: 2002-02-11 08:28 pm (UTC)Ah, I see.
(ponder)
I'd still love to see you try out another metaphor. Not just as a mental exercise, either; I believe that the metaphors we use really do shape our understanding of, and involvement with, the world around us.
But I also know how fear can literally feel like a wall - the kind that keeps scary stuff safe inside, where we hope nobody else will see it. The trouble, of course, is that walls work both ways - build them strong enough, and they keep a lot of good stuff out, too.